What did you think.....

[Snoogans4Jay]

....when you first heard PiL? What did you think of the new direction, the lyrics? Did you understand the concept John was reaching for (not a band, a company in the early days, then later direction change big time) or did you think he had lost it?

Ever seen PiL live? When and where? (obviously I haven't )

[johnnysgirl]

Errr... I like any of PIL music... I know that John changed PiL`s direction but I don`t think that the later PIL works sucked haha

PIL came ti Aregentina in 1994 I thnk but I was 10 years old and I had no knowledge of the band besides,.. they played in Buenos Aires and I live far far away from Buenos Aires... DAMN IT!!

[Fuggle]

I kind of think that PiL turned into the Johnny Rotten Caberet Show on his later stuff.

[Tao~]

That's an interesting take....Fuggle....I know that PiL was m,ost definately a pet project of John's...I think it fit right in with the eighties vibe.....I wish I could have seen them live.....I so do wish I could have..... ;D

[elisabeth]

Luckily the first PIL song I heard was Public image so the difference from pistols song wasn't that shocking as the other songs, but I loved it from the beginning, it had a sort of softer and richer sound, a bit funky even but Johnny's vocals and witty lyrics were still there. I like PIL as much as the SP-s. But about seeing them live, PIL visited my country (Estonia) a month before I was born, talk about misfortune or what?

[Tao~]

That is too bad....I have come to believe the fact that I will never see Johnny live in any form or fashion......thank God for recordings though!!!!!!

[elisabeth]

I actually believe that seeing Johnny live isn't that impossible, or at least I'm naively hoping, because it's just not possible he has given up preforming for ever, he still seems to have enough energy. (I'm hoping that one of the many rumors of SP doing another tour is true. Yup, I live in total denial XD)
But the recordings are awesome, although watching them is a bit of a bittersweet experience.

[Snoogans4Jay]

I am with you Elisabeth, I believe he just might perform again. I saw a DVD of the Pistols from 2002 and he kept teasing about touring again both with the Pistols and PiL during the show. He stilll LOOKS great ;D, still SOUNDS great... .......there is just no reason for him not to do it

I don't think PiL was just a "Johnny caberet" -- ------I think John just wanted complete control over where he was moving artistically (and that is way hard with guys like Keith and Wobble that have very strong views too)........

[Tao~]

admin said:

I am with you Elisabeth, I believe he just might perform again. I saw a DVD of the Pistols from 2002 and he kept teasing about touring again both with the Pistols and PiL during the show. He stilll LOOKS great ;D, still SOUNDS great... .......there is just no reason for him not to do it

I don't think PiL was just a "Johnny caberet" -- ------I think John just wanted complete control over where he was moving artistically (and that is way hard with guys like Keith and Wobble that have very strong views too)........

Thanks Snoogs...and Elisabeth for giving me hope........I would so be there if ever I were fortunate enough to have the opportunity to see them.....I can see your point quite clearly about PiL......Snoogs.....I can see where Johnny would have wanted it completely *his way*.....He just wanted it to be what he envisioned.......

[Joe]

My 1st exposure was Second Edition & I really liked it a lot. I was really into listening to a lotta dub at the time, & this didn't seem much different.

I understood the band vs. company concept, but I thought John & Keith lost it when they appeared on Tomorrow & acted snotty about the whole thing. Tom Snyder tried to get them to talk about what type of projects they were interested in & they gave vague answers like "anything worthwhile."

Yet their appearance on Tomorrow was voted one of the top 10 moments in rock-n-roll TV history, & indeed it was classic TV. (It can be seen on the new Tomorrow Punk and New Wave DVD that came out last year. Interestingly, John was involved in another of the top 10----the Pistols' appearance on American Bandstand that ended in chaos.)

[Snoogans4Jay]

joe said:

My 1st exposure was Second Edition & I really liked it a lot. I was really into listening to a lotta dub at the time, & this didn't seem much different.

I understood the band vs. company concept, but I thought John & Keith lost it when they appeared on Tomorrow & acted snotty about the whole thing. Tom Snyder tried to get them to talk about what type of projects they were interested in & they gave vague answers like "anything worthwhile."

Yet their appearance on Tomorrow was voted one of the top 10 moments in rock-n-roll TV history, & indeed it was classic TV. (It can be seen on the new Tomorrow Punk and New Wave DVD that came out last year. Interestingly, John was involved in another of the top 10----the Pistols' appearance on American Bandstand that ended in chaos.)

Second Edition is wonderful, I LOVE Albatross (is he referring to the Pistols and the media circus? ), Death Disco , Poptones, Careering, Bad Baby , and Chant the best......but they are all amazing...


I know, I love the American Bandstand appearance.............Joe, Fuggle said kind of the same thing about the Tomorrow interview.........I just guess I am the only one, but I thought Tom Snyder just did NOT get it. I mean there were times when John gave him openings for conversation about what soundtracks they might have wanted to do etc.......and about the way they perceived their company and he just didn't go with it. I think John perceived that as lack of preparation on Mr. Snyders's part. I know I did. John was also asked, badly I thought, about the Pistols and their name. Well at the time John was involved in litigation with Malcolm and couldn't legally comment on that. An interviewer who had done their homework would have known that. John and Keith I thought handled a difficult unprepared interviewer pretty well. John has "his way" of speaking (at that time at least) to interviews and Mr. Snyder should have been familiar with that. There WERE openings and if my untrained ear could get them, then a professional certainly should have. Dammit...... JMO

[Joe]

I have to respectfully disagree. I was a huge fan of Johnny Carson & Tom Snyder. In college, they gave me a roommate who liked Johnny as much as I did, & we'd watch him every night, & we were both too lazy to get up & turn off the TV, & thus became Snyder fans as well. I watched him every night for many years. Didn't translate into getting too much sleep, but so be it.

Snyder was older than most punkers & I think had he prepared by reading everything possible there was to read about punk rock, he still wouldn't have been any more prepared coz of the generation gap. He did bring the likes of PIL, the Clash, Elvis Costello, the Jam, the Ramones, Iggy Pop, U-2, etc. to network TV when they otherwise wouldn't have been there.

I had read that rock bands genuinely liked Snyder, that when they were on the road they were up late watching him after their shows & wanted to be on with him. Other punk/new wave artists that he interviewed came off better than Lydon & Levene. If Snyder didn't understand, he at least tried to understand why Iggy would cut himself on stage or why the Plasmatics would blow up a car. He never scolded any of 'em.

If you wanna see a contrast that would show you just how good Snyder was with these musicians, pick up the DVD & check out the interview with the Ramones conducted by guest host Kelly Lang. She makes fun of their clothes, tells Joey he needs a haircut, & sez that she couldn't understand the words when Joey was singing. Snyder never did any of that stuff.

[Snoogans4Jay]

joe said:

I have to respectfully disagree. I was a huge fan of Johnny Carson & Tom Snyder. In college, they gave me a roommate who liked Johnny as much as I did, & we'd watch him every night, & we were both too lazy to get up & turn off the TV, & thus became Snyder fans as well. I watched him every night for many years. Didn't translate into getting too much sleep, but so be it.

Snyder was older than most punkers & I think had he prepared by reading everything possible there was to read about punk rock, he still wouldn't have been any more prepared coz of the generation gap. He did bring the likes of PIL, the Clash, Elvis Costello, the Jam, the Ramones, Iggy Pop, U-2, etc. to network TV when they otherwise wouldn't have been there.

I had read that rock bands genuinely liked Snyder, that when they were on the road they were up late watching him after their shows & wanted to be on with him. Other punk/new wave artists that he interviewed came off better than Lydon & Levene. If Snyder didn't understand, he at least tried to understand why Iggy would cut himself on stage or why the Plasmatics would blow up a car. He never scolded any of 'em.

If you wanna see a contrast that would show you just how good Snyder was with these musicians, pick up the DVD & check out the interview with the Ramones conducted by guest host Kelly Lang. She makes fun of their clothes, tells Joey he needs a haircut, & sez that she couldn't understand the words when Joey was singing. Snyder never did any of that stuff.

Hi Joe, I must admit I have never seen Mr. Snyder's show, and had never heard of him really I am sure he is a wonderful man. My only exposure to him was this attempt to interview John and Keith so you would be right 100% that I don't have a clue how he handled other performers on his show. Johnny Carson I had watched for years, so if I had also done that with Tom Snyder I might have had a better over all impression

[Tao~]

I have to agree with Snoogs.... don't know enough about him to really comment....In fact..I don't think I have ever seen this interview......But I want to....I'm sure it was great...

[Joe]

Snyder's background was news, & his guests on Tomorrow were newsmakers from all walks of life. To do that show, he had to be an expert on a lotta different topics. In my "old age" today, I understand that there's an age gap where there just won't be much understanding of some things.

For him to interview some of these punkers would be like, for example, somebody hiring me to interview any of today's rap stars. No amount of preparation I could possibly do would help me understand why it's interesting to listen to somebody talking over a drum beat & a tape-looped rhythm track, why they seem to be glorifying a ghetto culture as if it's something terrific, or why they refer to women as "bitches" & "whores" without any reprisal from their female audience. My kids love this stuff, of course.

Tao, you can check out the interview on the DVD, but if you can't get around to it, there's a complete transcript on Lydon's site. When you read it, imagine a lotta tension between the parties:

www.johnlydon.com/tom80.html

BTW, Lydon & Tom met again in 1997 on CBS & it went much better:

www.johnlydon.com/SNYDER.HTM

For the record, it was Alan Carr, not Nina Hagen. You'll be wondering this if you read both transcripts.