Guns 'N' Roses

[Snoogans4Jay]

WTF inspired THIS I have no clue. Just watched some Axl DVDs and old VHS today and no matter his problems now he was kick ass then. Must have been bad bad bad for Slash, Duff, and the boys to give up THAT money and not work with him anymore.

I see Steven Adler is in trouble again. Bless his heart.

[M!$H]

If you read Slash's book, you kind of get the jist of what is up with Axl. Basically, Slash is like "i won't totally bash the guy, but he can be a douche - however, no one else is allowed to talk smack about him because they've never had to deal with him." Apparently, Axl just stopped hanging out with the band once they got famous, so it made it really hard to write songs.

Slash talks about Steven Adler too. Kind of a tragic story and Slash feels really guilty about it, I think.

I love Guns n' Roses. It would be nice to see the original line up return, but I do not see it happening.

[Snoogans4Jay]

Aug 26, 2008 18:08:21 GMT -5 M!$H said:

If you read Slash's book, you kind of get the jist of what is up with Axl. Basically, Slash is like "i won't totally bash the guy, but he can be a douche - however, no one else is allowed to talk smack about him because they've never had to deal with him." Apparently, Axl just stopped hanging out with the band once they got famous, so it made it really hard to write songs.

Slash talks about Steven Adler too. Kind of a tragic story and Slash feels really guilty about it, I think.

I love Guns n' Roses. It would be nice to see the original line up return, but I do not see it happening.

Yeah, Axl has Bipolar Disorder as well as PTSD and has a lot to deal with. I know that isn't easy and it is never easy for someone without a "mental illness" to work with someone who has. I have to get Slash's book, I love Slash to pieces

[Snoogans4Jay]

Another thing that draws me to Axl is how hurt he has been by bands and people HE has been a fan of once he expressed that he was a fan.

For example. Tom Petty felt "over shined" by Axl when they performed Free Fallin on the MTV Awards 1989 and treated Axl like shit after the performance. He couldn't see that Axl just loved his song and was a fan, couldn't take that as a compliment. Next, Metallica. Axl was a HUGE fan of Fade To Black, listened to it when he was upset. The band hated him on the tour they shared because they didn't understand him. Ruined that for him. Same with Nirvana. Axl was one of the first stars to wear a Nirvana baseball hat and invite them on tour with G N R at the height of G N R's fame. Axl loved the song Lithium because it was close to his experiences with the drug and the emotions. Kurt distanced himself, he and Courtney were insulting to Axl in person, ruined that. Why is it SOOOOOOOo important to distance yourself from a band just because they have more fans or are "mainstream"........? Why hurt this man's feelings and ruin the music forever that gave him comfort previously? I can feel for that having met several assholes that I once loved the music of. You never get the love of the song back, never feel the same again.

THAT is part of the reason I will never make fun of Axl for his "corn rows", or his surgeries if he has had them, or anything else. I understand. He has been there and blasted at every opportunity by the critics, fellow performers, and the fans alike. It is amazing to me the survivor the man has shown and proved himself to be.

[Fuggle]

Guns 'N' Roses

"Chinese Democracy" (Geffen)

1-1/2 stars



It’s a testament to Guns N’ Roses’ legacy that anyone cares about “Chinese Democracy,” the band’s first album of original material in 17 years.

Of course the “band” that exists now bares little resemblance to GN’R circa 1991. Izzy Stradlin, Slash and Duff McKagan packed up their guns a long time ago.

The intervening years saw a truckload of new members welcomed to the jungle, where they didn’t do much more than work on “Chinese Democracy.” Virtuoso guitarist Buckethead came and left. Moby was brought in to produce, and he stuck around for even shorter. Now the band includes a dude named Bumblefoot.

A while ago, GN’R became frontman Axl Rose’s show. It’s almost unfair that “Chinese Democracy” is credited to Guns N’ Roses. Back in the late ‘80s, the snarling, direct rock of “Appetite for Destruction” laid waste to these sort of overblown albums.

Although Rose has plenty of snarl left in him (listen to him howl “I don’t give a f--k ‘bout them because I am crazy” on “Riad N’ the Bedouins”) and there’s some gnarly fretwork on “Democracy,” the album is missing the danger that first made GN’R exciting.

One has an image of Rose hunched over a studio mixing board, second guessing every solo, over-producing every track, slowly removing the life from this record over the course of a decade.

He’s ended up not with 14 songs, but 14 chunks of sound that almost all clock in at 5 minutes each.

These are 14 tangles of guitars, screams, guitars, flutes, guitars, horns, guitars, keyboards and more, more, more.

It’s rumored this album cost about $14 million. That million-per-track statistic means that Axl got his money’s worth, even if the listener didn’t. “Guitar Hero” is a more lively rock ‘n’ roll experience than “Chinese Democracy.”

And why does every track have to be an epic? Down the stretch, “Democracy” turns into “November Rain” on repeat, all lumbering tempos, skyscraper choruses and mind-numbing excess. Underneath all that fluff, it’s a good bet “Sorry,” “I.R.S.,” “Madagascar” are all the same song. The only way to differentiate is “Madagascar” features samples spoken by Michael J. Fox and Martin Luther King Jr. (Too much? Nah), “Sorry” features Sebastian Bach on backing vocals and “I.R.S.” references the President. Whether Rose means George Bush, Bill Clinton, George W. Bush or Barack Obama is anyone’s guess.

The “Use Your Illusion” albums hinted at it, but “Democracy” proves Rose never wanted to be Mick Jagger or Johnny Rotten, but some awful amalgam of Elton John, Freddie Mercury and Andrew Lloyd Webber.

Rose’s work is worse than just overcooked and dense. At times, “Chinese Democracy” is flat-out awful.

“Shackler’s Revenge,” featuring a sadly strained, lower-register growl from Rose, jumps on the “let’s rip off White Zombie” bandwagon about 15 years too late. Imagine that, an album in the works this long turns up outdated on arrival.

The a capella screeching that opens “Scraped” might be the worst noise in the history of recorded music. Rose has got an unholy wail, but it’s best heard over a crushing guitar crescendo.

And, with respect due to Mr. Buckethead and Mr. Bumblefoot, the best way to experience Rose’s sweaty cries is in tandem with Slash’s greasy guitar licks. That is the version of Guns N’ Roses that would be worth waiting 17 years for.

Although the anticipation surrounding “Democracy” can be chalked up to GN’R’s enduring legacy, this album only tarnishes it.

[Fuggle]

Guns N’ Roses - Chinese Democracy

Stephen Thomas Erlewine




To put Chinese Democracy in some perspective: it arrives 17 years after the twin Use Your Illusions, the last set of original music by Guns N’ Roses. Seventeen years prior to the Illusions, it was 1974, back before the Ramones and Sex Pistols, back before Aerosmith had Rocks and Toys in the Attic, back before Queen had A Night at the Opera — back before almost anything that Axl Rose worships even existed. Generations have passed in these 17 years but not for Axl. He cut himself off from the world following the trouble-ridden Illusion tour, retreating to the Hollywood Hills, swapping every original GNR member in favor for contract players culled from his mid-’90s musical obsessions — Tommy Stinson from the Replacements, Robin Finck from Nine Inch Nails, Buckethead from guitar magazines — as he turned into rock’s Charles Foster Kane, a genius in self-imposed exile spending millions to make his own Xanadu, Chinese Democracy.

Like Xanadu, Chinese Democracy is a monument to man’s might, but where Kane sought to bring the world underneath his roof, Axl labored to create an ideal version of his inner world, working endlessly on a set of songs about his heartbreak, persecution and paranoia, topics well-mined on the Illusions. Using the pompous ten-minute epics “Estranged” and “November Rain” as his foundation, Axl strips away all remnants of the old, snake-dancing GNR, shedding the black humor and blues, replacing any good times with vindictive spleen in the vein of “You Could Be Mine.” All this melodrama and malevolence feels familiar and, surprisingly, so does much of Chinese Democracy, even for those listeners that didn’t hear the portions of the record as leaked demos and live tracks. Despite a few surface flourishes - all the endless, evident hours spent on ProTools, a hip-hop loop here, a Spanish six-string there, absurd elastic guitar effects - this is an album unconcerned with the future of rock & roll. One listen and it’s abundantly clear that Axl spent the decade-plus in the studio refining, not reinventing, obsessing over a handful of tracks, spending an inordinate amount of timing chasing the sound in his head - that’s it, no more, no less.

Such maniacal indulgence is ridiculous but strangely understandable: Rose received unlimited time and money to create this album, so why not take full advantage and obsess over every last detail? The odd thing is, he spent all this time and money on an album that is deliberately not a grand masterpiece — a record that pushes limits or digs deep — but merely a set of 14 songs. Compared to the chaotic Use Your Illusions, Chinese Democracy feels strangely modest, but that’s because it’s a single polished album, not a double album so over-stuffed it duplicates songs. Modest is an odd word for an album a decade-plus in the making, but Axl’s intent is oddly simple: he sees GNR not as a gutter-rock band but as a pomp-rock vehicle for him to lash out against all those that don’t trust him, whether it’s failed friends, lapsed fans, ex-lovers, former managers, fired band mates or rock critics. Chinese Democracy is the best articulation of this megalomania as could be possible, so the only thing to quibble about is his execution which occasionally is perplexing, particularly when Rose slides into hammy vocal inflections or encourages complicated guitar that only guitarists appreciate (it’s telling that the only memorable phrases from Robin Finck, Buckethead or Bumblefoot or whoever are ones that mimic Slash’s full-throated melodic growl). Even with these odd flourishes, it’s hard not to marvel, either in respect or bewilderment, at dense, immaculate wall of god knows how many guitars, synthesizers, vocals and strings.

The production is so dense it’s hard to warm to, but it fits the music. These aren’t songs that grab and hold, they’re songs that unfold, so much so that Chinese Democracy may seem a little underwhelming upon its first listen: it’s not just the years of pent-up anticipation, it’s that Axl spent so much time creating the music — constructing the structure then filling out the frame — that there’s no easy way into the album. That, combined with the realization that Axl isn’t trying to reinvent GNR, just finishing what he started on the Illusions, can make Chinese Democracy seem mildly anticlimactic but Rose spent a decade plus working on this — he deserves to not have it dismissed on a cursory listen. Give it time, listening like it was 1998 not 2008, and the album does give up some terrific music - music that is overblown but not overdone. True, those good moments are the song that have kicked around the internet for the entirety of the new millennium: the slinky, spiteful “Better,” slowly building into its fury; the quite gorgeous, if heavy handed, “Street of Dreams;” “There was a Time,” which overcomes its acronym and lack of chorus on its sheer drama,; “Catcher in the Rye,” the lightest, brightest moment here; the slow, grinding “I.R.S.;” and “Madagascar,” a ludicrous rueful rumination that finds space for quotations from Martin Luther King amidst its trip-hop pulse. These aren’t innovations, they’re extensions of “Breakdown” and “Estranged,” epics that require some work to decode because Axl forces the listener to meet him on his own terms. This all-consuming artistic narcissism has become Rose’s defining trait, not letting him move forward, only to relentlessly explore the same territory over and over again. And this solipsism turns Chinese Democracy into something strangely, surprisingly simple: it won’t change music, won’t change any lives, it’s just 14 more songs about loneliness and persecution. Or as Axl put it in an apology for canceled concerts in 2006, “In the end, it’s just an album.” And it’s a good album, no less and no more.

[Snoogans4Jay]

Thanks Fuggle, it is good to know someone else is interested in this record good or bad. I feel like it is the Man's most important work simply because it seems to have been that to him. The art is the artist in my view. I bought it, will review it at some time. Here, maybe. Either way, Welcome Back to the Ax Man. It has been a looooooong time coming

[Snoogans4Jay]

Just finished watching Axl with the new Guns at Rock N Rio 2006 on DVD. WOW. Axl has not lost it, in fact is even better and if this is ANYTHING like what is in store for new possible tours, the sky is the limit. From the touching Sweet Child Of Mine with the audience supplying what the singer no longer can, to the new songs like IRS, this is just outstanding. Axl looks to be in better form than he has been in just YEARS.

I was particularly happy with his cover of Knocking on Heaven's Door. Any Guns fan knows the famous cover of this song by the original GnR but Axl has gone back to basics. Gone are the Jamaican rhythms and extra singers in the chorus. The song is now as it should have always been. Axl, the audience, minimal accompaniment. Touching and wonderful. November Rain has never ever sounded better and it is a very fitting center piece for this show. Axl sounds so good and so genuine one can not help but feel there is still feeling for Erin Everly somewhere in there. Or maybe an ode to true love lost beyond repair.

Mr. Brownstone, Out to Get Me, You Could Be Mine, and Night Train provide the rockers along with the opening Welcome to the Jungle. Axl ends the show with Paradise City.

It should be noted that Axl once said that he wanted to BURY Appetite for Destruction when Use Your Illusion came out. By putting off Chinese Democracy this long that goal can never really be met, as Appetite has achieved near mythic status, but that is no longer the goal I think. I think Axl has learned that, as with most Bipolar people, the goal becomes to live in the moment of now, and that is what he achieves and continues to achieve. Mr. Rose is a survivor. He has brought his soul to his talent and melded the two to achieve life and career---to become the man he is today and to allow us along for the ride. I hope he stays here with us, teaching us, for a long long time. We need you Axl! I need you.

[sistermidnite]

AHHHHH GUNS N ROSES! discovered them this year, onviosuly id heard sweet child of mine before and knew who they were, bought th debut album cheaply and was blown away, NOT what i was expecting (yucky 80s hair metal like Bon Jovi - apologies to any Bon jovi fans, no offence intended)! Played it to death at ridiculously high volumes for weeks and weeks, still playing it every so often now. a total classic, i'm so glad i bought it. not sure about their other albums, apparently they never managed to capture that magic again. i haven;t haerd them though so i can't really judge. oh and slash? ;D have i conveyed my opinion on mr hudson yet?

[Snoogans4Jay]

May 12, 2009 13:11:53 GMT -5 sistermidnite said:

AHHHHH GUNS N ROSES! discovered them this year, onviosuly id heard sweet child of mine before and knew who they were, bought th debut album cheaply and was blown away, NOT what i was expecting (yucky 80s hair metal like Bon Jovi - apologies to any Bon jovi fans, no offence intended)! Played it to death at ridiculously high volumes for weeks and weeks, still playing it every so often now. a total classic, i'm so glad i bought it. not sure about their other albums, apparently they never managed to capture that magic again. i haven;t haerd them though so i can't really judge. oh and slash? ;D have i conveyed my opinion on mr hudson yet?

Under our Chit chat section check out the "Hotties" pictures (we are so lame sometimes ) and you will find many delectable pictures of Mr. Hudson

[bromleyboy]

I really enjoyed the Chinese Democracy, while it's not Guns of old, I think it is a fantastic Axl solo album. I saw nu-Guns twice and the last time they played, it was better than the concert of old skool Guns I saw back in 1993.

As for old skool Guns, have you seen the line-up for Slash's first solo album? It's called Slash And Friends, due for release in early 2010 and the guest list is pretty fuckin' strong, as follows.

- Jason Bonham (son of John Bonham from Led Zeppelin - drums)
- Andrew Stockdale (singer of Wolfmother - vocals)
- Alice Cooper (no explanation - vocals)
- M. Shadows (vocalist for Avenged Sevenfold - vocals)
- Ozzy Osbourne (no explanation - vocals)
- Steven Adler (classic line-up drummer for Guns N' Roses - drums)
- Izzy Stradlin (classic line-up guitarist for Guns N' Roses - guitar)
- Travis Barker (drummer for Blink 182 - drums)
- Fergie (popular Californian singer - vocals)
- Ronnie Wood (guitarist for The Rolling Stones - guitar)
- Flea (bassist for the Red Hot Chili Peppers - bass)
- Iggy Pop (no explanation - vocals)
- Chris Cornell (ex-Soundgarden vocalist- vocals)
- Nick Oliveri (ex-Queens Of The Stone Age bassist - bass)
- Adam Levine (guitarist of Maroon 5 - vocals/guitar)
- Judgement Day (a three-piece string metal band from California - strings)
- Lenny Castro (Californian percussionist - percussion)
- Meat Loaf (no explanation - vocals)

And more to follow. Sounds hella interesting.