England's Dreaming

[Joe]

I recently finished reading England's Dreaming by Jon Savage, a thick, scholarly, thorough, exhaustive history of punk in general & the Pistols in particular.

I highly recommend it. It's interesting & entertaining, but far from being in the "easy reading" category.

The only thing I didn't like was Savage's attitude. He acts as tho' the only true punk is British punk, & that US punk is worthless & US punk fans wouldn't know good punk if they heard it.

Well, EXCUSE ME, Mr. Savage! The British skiffle craze was based on American folk music, & later the British Invasion was rehashed Amercian rock-n-roll while the British blues movement (the Stones, Yardbirds, Animals, et. al.) was based on American blues. FINALLY the English invent an original sound & Savage has to get snotty about it. Hopefully he'll see this post & register for these boards so he can educate all of us on what good punk is.

[Snoogans4Jay]

joe said:

I recently finished reading England's Dreaming by Jon Savage, a thick, scholarly, thorough, exhaustive history of punk in general & the Pistols in particular.

I highly recommend it. It's interesting & entertaining, but far from being in the "easy reading" category.

The only thing I didn't like was Savage's attitude. He acts as tho' the only true punk is British punk, & that US punk is worthless & US punk fans wouldn't know good punk if they heard it.

Well, EXCUSE ME, Mr. Savage! The British skiffle craze was based on American folk music, & later the British Invasion was rehashed Amercian rock-n-roll while the British blues movement (the Stones, Yardbirds, Animals, et. al.) was based on American blues. FINALLY the English invent an original sound & Savage has to get snotty about it. Hopefully he'll see this post & register for these boards so he can educate all of us on what good punk is.

This is one of the books I really want to get and read, thank you for that review Joe! I know John doesn't have a very high opinion of it but I think the only book he likes is his own Can't blame him for that, but after the new PiL book THIS is my next read I agree with you about the whole elitist attitude.....

[M!$H]

New PiL book???

But I've read "England's Dreaming." I actually PREFER it to John's book. :X

I don't know what you mean about Savage's attitude. I didn't pick that up from the book. I think he was just focusing on what HE knew, at the time, because you know, he was involved in it DURING it .... but I don't think that was the purpose of his book, to just rag on NY. He wanted to focus on British punk, not New York. And he does have quite a bit of information about the NY Dolls. So I don't feel like he was being like "elitist" or anything; I think he was just focusing on what he wanted to focus on. I don't really know how to word it, but I don't think Savage was like "US PUNK = TEH SUCKS". In my mind he wasn't "snotty" he was just.........writing about British punk. He wasn't saying it was better - he was just saying British did it first, basically. I actually remember him talking a lot about New York artists. It's been a while since I read the book, so I'll stop talking about this aspect on it.

But I loved the book. Seriously. Loved it. I like how it didn't just focus on John and Sid- a lot of Pistols books tend to be like "ROTTEN, VICIOUS, and you know those other guys" and that gets a little annoying to me. Not that I don't love John - but John's ego is already big enough, he doesn't need anyone else really stroking it. And I loved how it focused not just on the SEX shop, but on the other shops. It provided information on everything. There were great pictures, good quotes, interviews with everybody who knew anything or was anywhere near what was going on. In depth, amazing, enlightening. Loved it.

[Joe]

The anti-US thing was just an attitude that I picked up on during certain passages, but you're correct, Misshell, it's not like it permeates each page of the book.

Another interesting aspect was how little money the Pistols made---at least until Lydon's law suit was settled many years later. Even during their final tour in the US, they were each making just $25 a night. That summer, I was working in a cigar store. I never knew it until now, but I made more money that summer than any of the Sex Pistols!

[Snoogans4Jay]

joe said:

The anti-US thing was just an attitude that I picked up on during certain passages, but you're correct, Misshell, it's not like it permeates each page of the book.

Another interesting aspect was how little money the Pistols made---at least until Lydon's law suit was settled many years later. Even during their final tour in the US, they were each making just $25 a night. That summer, I was working in a cigar store. I never knew it until now, but I made more money that summer than any of the Sex Pistols!

That is true, they made nothing, Malcolm took the money. However, with John's lawsuit, it is interesting that the money ended up being divided between John, Steve, Paul, and Sid's estate. Glen got nothing, was not even named as a member of the band. Session musician. I think he has handled that situation pretty well in later dealings with John.

[Snoogans4Jay]

Finally got this book and already laughing my ass off at quotes from Glen.... ...he so witty I had to buy it after Seaside stated the part about John getting undressed under the covers.... ;D......had to read more

LONG ass book and it keeps going off and talking about other people (yeah yeah I know ,but I don't CARE about THEM dammmit ) This should only take the better part of a year to finish And why put Sid on the cover, geez

[kathy]

I bought the book 10 years ago at least and found it in the garage recently. Am re-reading it a few pages at a time on the weekends. At this pace, I hope to be done by 2010!!!!

Regarding John's changing under the covers, this makes total sense to me. There are numerous photos of Steve, Sid, and Paul in various stages of undress on the internet. The only two who seem to have escaped having these revealing photos taken of them back in the day are (1) John and (2) Glen.

Hey, John's never been anybody's fool! Maybe he was afraid someone would pull out a Polaroid and snap away if he didn't change under the covers! Clever boy!!!!

[seasidegrl]

I think he was just shy as well. He has said he does not like himself so I think he was ashamed of his body. Poorr baby

[simonsezwhut]

Whatever people might think about England's Dreaming, it certainly gives a good overview of what was happening at the time, and it's full of interesting anecdotes. I thought the book was very informative.

Loved the tidbit about John getting dressed under the covers, too...:)